https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/TheBrokenSwordYouTube/Twitter https://twitter.com/TheBroken_SwordInstagram https://www.instagram.com/thebroken_sword/----------Please consider subscribing to the channel for all future updates based on the Lord of the Rings!Any future news and updates regarding the show or anything else, we will be sure to let you guys know ASAP!Also, if you have any suggestions for future videos too, then please leave a comment below!----------We do not claim to own the rights to any of the art work used throughout this video. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. It may not display this or other websites correctly. When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. Gandalf and Galadriel both seem to think that they could take the One, and replace Sauron - if they can so could Saruman. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram. Instead of sending armies out to take Minas Tirith, Sauron would have had the majority of his forces concentrated on his borders and sweeping the land in front of it with orcs, men, trolls, and Nazgul. But Saruman was always too prideful for his companions. If Saruman masters the ring, he will have a chance of defeating Sauron. The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. Even still, Frodo set the benchmark for hope and volunteered to take the One Ring to Mordor, where he destroyed it and saved the world from disaster. When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. If the Stranger is actually Gandalf, think about it from a character development standpoint. (Letter 246). By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. JavaScript is disabled. They'd be capable of wielding it and would be a threat to Sauron, though Sauron would probably win in the end as The Ring was only . - his malice and domination, or something like that. Saruman himself is not directly involved, and only appears again in chapter 10, The Voice of Saruman, by which time he is trapped in Orthanc. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. He and his servants already knew of his involvement in the attack on the Fellowship and the capture of the hobbits. What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? The Ring merely corrupted you, it did not control you. Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. The Silmarillion says Saruman was the eldest Istari and came first. Was the "Eye of Sauron" Sauron's actual physical form? When he saw Aragorn marching on the Black Gate, he was afraid. Rather, Saruman would have had to dominate Sauron's will and essentially kick him out of the Ring. Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. Saruman wants to be Sauron's . Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. My own feeling is that since it takes time to learn to master the Ring (also Letter 246), Sauron would have had to pay a visit immediately and before Saruman had the time to achieve this mastery. (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, The Silmarillion as far as the quoted material here goes). There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) by J. R. R. Tolkien is one of the greatest and most famous epic fantasy series in English literature. Without Gandalf, King Theoden would likely remain under the control of Saruman. If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package. Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. House of Dragons vs. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. And in The Rings of Power, when the mystics realized their error, they said the Stranger is the Istarnot one of the Istari, the Istar, as if only one is present in Middle-earth right now. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. But it will still never truly be his & he will have to continually fight to dominate it as the One Ring wants to return to its master, who cannot be banished until the Ring is destroyed. Remember, the greater part of Saurons strength was poured into the ring. Fury of the Gods Special: Shazamily Matters, A Lord of the Rings Theory Hints Tom Bombadil Was in the Movies All Along, 10 Sci-Fi Films That Bombed At The Box Office But Became Cult Classics. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. Even some of the imagery in his scenes screams Gandalf. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. He wanted the One Ring. He said yes!" The pair had met through mutual friends years ago, but had an immediate spark when they reconnected last year. Would Sauron be able to open two fronts, battling against Isengard and Gondor? It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. Sauron was the Dark Lord in The Lord of the Rings saga, written by J.R.R. For one, the Ring wasn't a tool or a weapon of war that anyone could use for anything. *shrugs*. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Which probably wouldn't have happened. We know that disobedience can bring ruin such as what happened with the Noldor when they disobeyed the Valar or the Army of the Dead when they disobeyed Isildur and broke their oath to fight for him. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). Will to conquer all life in Middle-earth was the last bit I believe. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. You would have both Saruman and Sauron focused in the same area and it is very unlikely Frodo would have escaped that level of scrutiny even with Gollum leading him on secret paths. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Is Gandalf the Gray's power actually limited or did he merely promise to not use it? Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that effects all events afterwards! If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? "Greetings, Naruto Wraithslayer, wielder of the Faerdagnir. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. In Tolkiens writings, they came across the sea. 2463, Saruman was appointed its leader.Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his One Ring.Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature Gollum, drawing the Dark Lord closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing. Which routine is best for gaining muscle? This moment was part of an overall mistake, and they could be wrong about this observation, too. Did Peter Jackson take inspiration for Gollum from "Dracula 1931" movie. As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. With possession of the one ring he would have replaced Sauron (would have wiped him out entirely). To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Not true. Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Posted September 4, 2007. mysticalblues said: My roommate met someone last week that had a ring that she got in St. Thomas. Through them Tolkien shows Faramir and Eomer's quality was in not being blind followers of loyalty and obedience to king and father but seeing a bigger picture and being obedient to a greater purpose. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. He definitely volunteered to go to Middle-earth first. "Saruman would've won if he captured the ring"--Won what? Doom. Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. He reasoned that his total control of Middle . Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. #2. However, The Lord of the Rings TV series still left plenty of questions for future seasons. The Uruk-hai capture Frodo and Sam at Amon Hen, thus Saruman gains possession of the most powerful of the Rings of Power, which carries in it, a greater part of Sauron's inherent might. You must log in or register to reply here. Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten the One Ring? But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. The thing is, that wouldn't be a simple task. Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: "they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force." Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. A place where magic is studied and practiced? On the surface, Saruman seems like one of the simplest Lord of the Rings characters to define. How successful would Saruman be finding and capturing the Ringbearer in this scenario is speculative but one has to wonder would Sauron not notice this activity. He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? That was a lucky hitand did you perhaps notice that Sauron was more or less single-handedly beating the entire Last Alliance army at that point? IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. Saruman arrived in Middle-earth midway through the Third Age, along with Gandalf and Radagast. Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. *Originally posted by Triskadecamus * Since the One Ring is a part of Sauron it could only ever reach its full power under Sauron's control. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". The Ring also has his - what does it say? We'll probably never know. Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. First off, it gives us an idea of how dangerous the Ring is- if the head of the Istari and White Council can . His actions were more indirect as his decision was of non-action in not taking Frodo to Minas Tirith. In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. Gandalf was going to announce that Sauron had found the Ring. It wasn't really a surprise. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron? But what would have happened if things had worked out differently? Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. Gandalf wasn't even sure if he would be able to break his staff in The Return of the King, and that was a very weakened version of Saruman. Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. It does not store any personal data. The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. One can imagine My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. That makes Gandalf more or less like we know him from The Lord of the Rings, thousands of years in the future. In fact, he had started searching for the . Whether he judged correctly is another matter, but I would expect it to be a contest. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. its forging) to end (the . Because the One Ring was the master to all . Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. But if they did, Saruman would have had the One Ring in his possession. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. Feel free to contact him by email at hawkins.blake12@gmail.com, or find him on Facebook. Sauron was the master ring-maker in LOTR, but Saruman also forged a ring of power so that he could eventually challenge the Dark Lord. I'm a little vague on this point. Let's first look at what would happen if Saruman succeeded, and then at his strategy for defeating Sauron. Even if Saruman won this hypothetical battle, it would be ultimately irrelevant. Tolkiens complex writings and retcons dont reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. The Palantri. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? But I've been thinking. Orcs are poster children for corruption, and plague the Fellowship throughout the novels. If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. First of all: Yes, you probably should watch at least The Two Towers before reading much further: that movie is all about Saruman's plans and schemes.. Having said that, there's a combination of things that have driven Saruman to act the way he does in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. Saruman comes to look down on hobbits. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) Saruman tries to master the ring, but he doesn't completely achieve such mastery. The Vanyar were one of the tribes/families of the elves. We know that one of the elven rings was gifted to Gandalf. After that there is no other mention of Aragorn and the Ring together. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . In the books it is mentioned several times that Sauron fears one of the uber good guys getting hold of the Ring. Gandalf was hand-selected and sent by Manw. Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. This just had to be the best designed set, even better than the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon! What if Saruman had never been corrupted? 1 What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? And in The Rings of Power, when the . What happens next? The orcs likely would have gotten to Isengard the next day or so or met Saruman on the way as he or his image was seen by Aragorn and Company on the evening of the 30th. And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. Sauron once again lay dormant for over a millennium in the Second Age, secretly preparing another attempt to take over Middle-earth. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. What did Tolkien originally write? Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? Just like when Sauron, arguably the most powerful 'mage' of that time, did during the last alliance the one where he lost due to a mere human? The Lord Of The Rings. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. I don't think we have enough information to answer this with certainty. Why does Gollum calling the ring his own not alert Sauron? When Gandalf returned and revealed himself to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn he said something to the effect of "in a way I'm now Saruman, but you can keep calling me Gandalf." In Middle-earth history, it seems likely Saruman arrived before Gandalf did. Saruman was corrupted already so was a good candidate for the One Ring, through him it could exert Sauron's will to enslave all Middle-earth. You are using an out of date browser. RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. The Lord of the Rings. That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. A limit involving the quotient of two sums. In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the . For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . What if the Stranger is Saruman? You have different tier options between $2 - $250, which can get you everything from exclusive access to upcoming videos, shoutouts, discounts, access to original artwork, producer credits on productions etc. Their power was in preserving and healing the hurts done to the earth, and to those who were harmed by evil. It may not display this or other websites correctly. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! But eventually the Ring would subvert their efforts and bring about evil. It would be a delicate balance. . If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . In Unfinished Tales, J.R.R. It would have been the master in the end. We dont know if the Stranger will make it to his destination and the show could certainly deviate from lore or invent new history ( as it has done already). Elemental Staffs. Why are trials on "Law & Order" in the New York Supreme Court? See Palantr Wikipedia . He eventually became the leader of the Istari because of all of them, he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old. In other words, he learned about dark magic and Ringlore and knew the enemy the best of the Istari. 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. 2) Saurman is defeated by Sauron and the ring is taken from him, destroying Saruman's mind. Heck, the great among the Elves, or even Aragorn, were considered very credible threats by Sauron. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The other Rings of power could be used by anyone else varying only by the individual. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. Why Did Eru Give Men The Gift Of Death And Not to The Elves too? So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. Why did Saruman seem to believe that Sauron wouldn't return? If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? Much of Sarumans history in the Second Age is mysterious. The key thing to note is that Sauron, by the time of the War of the Ring, lacked the ability to take a. I would not be too sure that Sauron would be the victor, as Saruman spent long years in study of ring-lore. Any idea what set any of these are from? In the appendices it mentions the three assaults on Lorien, during the final days of the struggle. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. Does this sword yield more power than the ring? There's a moment near the end of The Two Towers when one of the Nazgul comes literally within arms' reach of the Ring.It happens in the ruined city of Osgiliath. In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. He would have learned what very few people knew - the actual objective of the Quest of the Ring, that it was being taken to Mt. Saruman joined Sauron only partially. -----Also check out our other channels!The 6th Ranger - (For all things Power Rangers! The images have been re-edited so I hope you enjoy! Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. We see this happening when Frodo claims the Ring at the Crack of Doom, and there's no reason to think it would be different for Saruman. He would soon surmise Saruman didn't have the Ring and the two halflings were ringers. Either way, the good guys loose big.