But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. No, it doesnt. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Sound familiar? Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. He was told to shoot two rounds. 00:03. Kyle . If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Look a fanboy. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. The problem was strikers. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. there is no better. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. 01:10. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) how do I get one for my P320? CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. three changes to the original design. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Thats SIGs term for a recall. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. About $300. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. But now, P320 is the subject. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Wont last!. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. L. LRRifleman . They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. Because its flat out bull**it. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. in Capitalvania. But Shatner? You have entered an incorrect email address! Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. A fine of up to $10,000. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. Third, Glock has had problems, too. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? He was told to shoot two rounds. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. No autographs, No self taken pictures. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. I also have a manual safety. The Hide Armory. 2. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Folks disagree on brands. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Mine is very accurate. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. JTF-2 is the only unit in. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Would you? Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. D. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Liberal, Conservative. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 Where is this lightning striking twice? Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. . Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. But that's not working in the P320, he said. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Excellent work. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Plastic crap! Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring.